TYKWER'S RUN By Tom Mes and Joep Vermaat Part 1, 2, 3 TM: This scene ties in with what you said earlier about seventies action films. Lola is a very likable character, but just like that she'll commit a crime or help her boyfriend rob a supermarket. TT: She wants him not to do it, of course. She says "Don't do it", but when she arrives, she's too late. So then she helps him, because it's out of emergency. It's not like she wants him to do it. She loves him. The idea of the film is of course that for the sake of love she does everything. I wanted it to have a purely passionate, instinctive structure, the whole film. That someone who's so much driven by his passion and his instincts can go beyond any border. For me that was really important. The way she acts makes clear to us that she's not used to this. She's not used to handling a gun, not at all. She says "How does this work?" and then it goes off. It's not like she's cool and just holds the gun out. It hate this. I hate it when films show people like us, we've never held a gun in our lives, and they suddenly start shooting. I hate this. You always see these nineteen year olds running around with big guns and acting like everybody has it at home and it's your favourite toy. It's not true and it's still not true, even in America. Okay, maybe they have seen a gun and seen a dead body, but people see dead bodies in films all the time, everybody gets shot all the time. I didn't like this and although this film really gets around with these modern phenomena, I didn't like it to be like that, because I didn't think it was believable and I want people to always stay believable. The character of Manni, he has a gun, but we were very much careful about what kind of gun this guy had. Always they have these huge guns, with revolvers and really cool looking, but he has this tiny, stupid gun that you get from your boss, when he says "Okay, you need a gun, take this shitty thing". It's a shitty, small thing and he really doesn't look cool with it. He wants to be cool, he's a wannabe. I think that's all parts that make this character believable. So the bad things she's doing, she's forced to do and I think the way she acts makes clear to us that this could happen to us in exactly the same way. If it would happen and if we were so much in love with someone, we might dare to do all these things she's doing. But still always with this desperate pressure inside of her. I think she also plays it something like "What am I doing here?" It's not "Okay I'm cool enough to do all this". TM: What about the use of the cartoon sequences? TT: Do you like them? TM: I do like them. Because they really speed up the film and they allow you to do things you wouldn't be able to do, as easily, in live action. TT: Yes, that's one reason. When you use animation, you get the audience more into the feeling that this film is ready for anything. The movie anyhow uses more or less most of the possibilities you have in filmmaking. In narrative filmmaking. There's video, there's black and white, there's colour, there's slow motion, all the elements are there. I didn't just use those in a way that we just spoke about, like some of the bad videoclips are done, just to throw as much effect as possible at the audience just to blow their minds, just to make them feel it's exciting. It's a film that handles the subject of 'what chances and possibilities do you have in life'. Of course I thought the visual answer to do this must exactly be 'what chances and possibilities do you have in cinema' and how can you use them? So I really cared a lot about how any visual decision and also any decision to do with sound was related to the level of the film. I'm not using video because it looks good now, but I'm using video for example for a certain level of the film, which means the whole world around Lola and Manni is always shot in 35 millimeter, because for me, that's the only real world in this film. Their love makes it become true. Anything else which is parallel, like the father with his girlfriend and all the elements that are happening while Manni and Lola are not present, they are all shot in video because that's a kind of synthetic reality, a parallel reality to theirs. Flashbacks are in black and white, flash forwards are photographed. But we sticked to this zuordnung. JV: And that makes it very clear for the viewer. TT: Exactly. Because I didn't want the audience to be confused by watching. Although you see so many elements, I always wanted it to feel comfortable, and be easy to follow. The animation is just one part of it and the animation is also very strictly related to the moment in the staircase where she runs down, which is always where she meets this boy with the dog and so is the first moment when fate turns into a new direction. Of course, because that's the idea that now anything can happen and anything new can happen, and this is very much related to the ideology of animation and of cartoons, because cartoons give you the impression of 'anything goes'. There's no budget in cartoons. You have just the painter who has to paint it and it's just relating to the fantasy of the painter and not so much to budget or whatever. JV: We were wondering about the soundtrack. Was it released in Germany? TT: In Germany it was really a big success, the soundtrack record. With the single we even made gold. JV: Are you a musician in any way? TT: Yes. JV: Were you a musician before you started making movies? TT: No. I'm a film musician. It's one thing for me. Music and film, I can't distract those from each other. JV: But so many movies have such horrible soundtracks. TT: I agree. That's always because they handle it so stupidly. They do it like "Let's shoot the film and then we'll put some music on top of it". Which is stupid, it's a process that grows really together. Like we did. There's three of us, it's done by three musicians, not just me. JV: Are you guys like a band? TT: In a way we work like a band, but we're not a band because we're studio musicians and we just do midi-stuff, we're midi crazies (laughs). I think we couldn't do a live performance really (laughs). JV: You could try it. TT: Well, I don't care so much. What we did was speak about the process really early on, on the basis of the script. I usually have a lot of music in mind when I'm writing and I already listen to a special kind of music while I'm writing, trying to sort out which direction it's going. With Lola it was always a very strange combination of very classical, orchestral stuff and very modern stuff. When I was writing it, the latest album from Underworld was out, Second Toughest, which I think is pretty strong, I like it. JV: It's got that same drive. TT: Yeah, a bit more cold, I think. That's what I mean. I always want a soundtrack to sound very much like... It's not score music they're doing, of course, and it's not meant to be score music. Score for me means to get close to the image and become one with the image. That means you have to have a strong emotional line in it. Which comes through voice very much and through strings. We combined strings with techno beats and stuff like that and it worked very well. JV: In some dialogue parts in the film, the music is almost turned down, through a filter, but still there in the background. Then we she starts running it picks up again. TT: Yes. We worked on the first edit of the film, which was more like a rough cut. We took it to the music studio and also made the first lay-outs of the music. Then we could also react already on where it goes up and down. Of course I wanted it to feel like one whole thing, you know, that you don't have the feeling - which is really often happening - that you have five different kinds of music in one film. They just thought "Okay this is a nice song to put here, and that one there". It doesn't feel like one thing. JV: And it's usually the record company's fault. They say: "You have to put this song in, because we have to sell it". TT: Yeah, they want to promote certain bands. It's stupid. What we did then, we went back with the lay-out of the music, into the editing room and then made the editing come closer to the music. And then we brought it back into the music studio and made the music come closer to the editing and so on. Back and forth. Because I really believe it has to be one unit in the end. I don't think this film can be watched without music. Not at all. It's very much one thing. The music is the soul and the basic rhythm of the movie. JV: In Winterschläfer that was the case as well. TT: Yes, I believe so. It's of course a slow film and the music is slow and it's maybe not so obvious, but it's also very present and there's a lot of music in it. JV: The first part, where the train is running off the tracks, we hear a sort of Autechre-like techno in the background. TT: A little bit. That's mainly just a bass drum there. But it's also influenced by stuff that Massive Attack did and some minimalists that I very much like. I really like a Belgian musician called Wim Mertens. JV: Do you know the Sähkö label, a Finnish label? I think you'd like their music. TT: There's a lot of Finnish guys I like a lot. JV: Mika Vainio, Panasonic. Do you know them? TT: Yes, that's really minimalistic stuff. JV: Really minimalistic. There are a lot of German guys making excellent music these days, too. Have you heard of people like Mouse On Mars, Kreitler, Funkstörung? TT: Do you know Notwist? I love them very much. I think they're one of the best bands at the moment. They're these strange South Bavarian guys (laughs). You don't believe when you hear this music, it's completely international, beautiful music and they're from this small part of the South of Munich. Very strange (laughs). JV: They also do a lot of visual stuff. This is one band that could also do film music easily. TT: Guess what they're doing now? I produced a new film together with Stefan, our producer, and Notwist is doing the soundtrack. It's really a film that fits very much to it. It's called Absolute Giganten and of course it's about three guys who are the complete opposite (laughs). They spend one last night together before one of them leaves the country, so it's their last farewell night. It's really amazing, because Notwist have this really good horn section and I really think they handle them very well, it's really big music. JV: Almost like an orchestra. TT: It's great, they really have a huge sound. It's nice because it still stays intimate. I like that combination of big and intimate. It's what I wanted to do with Lola and Wintersleepers. I like films that give the impression of something big, you know, that it's a big subject and there's really a lot in it, but still you feel in way that it's very personal and intimate and you stay close with one person and really get into it. You have this contradiction in a way.