Interview

MIKE LAMBERT & BRENT HOUGHTON The Hong Kong Connection Tijdens mijn vijf dagen als figurant voor Jackie Chan had ik het goede fortuin om twee mensen tegen het lijf te lopen wier reputaties in HK-filmkringen groeiende zijn: acteur/stuntman Mike Lambert en aspirant regisseur Brent Houghton. Geen van beide is afkomstig uit Hong Kong. Engelsman Mike en Australiër Brent zijn dankzij talent en doorzettingsvermogen de HK-scene binnengerold en het ziet ernaar uit dat beide een gouden toekomst tegemoet gaan. Tot mijn grote plezier waren beide heren bereid tot een Project A-interview, zodat we 's avonds na een lange draaidag plaats konden nemen in de hotelbar, met bier, nootjes en gruwelijke easy listening op de achtergrond. Mike, you're playing the big villain in Who Am I, right? Mike: Yes, but they change things so many times in HK movies, you never know. They tell you you're going to be in the main fight scene of this movie, and you think "oh, great, yeah", and then when it comes to it, they change things. Eventually you're not in the fight scene, or you might be, but then only a little bit, when you think it's going to be a big dramatic fight scene. I've heard this so many times. So you're ready, in the back of your mind, that the movie is not going to turn out the way you think it's going to turn out. For this film, originally they said I was going to be fighting Jackie at the end. Then they were saying there wasn't going to be any end fight scene. And then they said maybe there might be, but maybe they might cancel it. And now there's a chance they'll be doing something else. Until you actually sit there in the cinema, watching the full edited version, only then can you be happy about something. But it can also go the other way around. On set, when you do an action scene, or you're acting, or even something basic, like walking across the room, you'll think "that's not a good shot". But then, when you see it on the screen it's so different. You think "well, I wasn't really acting, I wasn't really moving like I should". But then you watch it on the monitor, and they just show your feet, or they show it in slow motion, and you see how powerful that scene has become. So unless you know something about moviemaking, you're not going to appreciate your own scenes. When you see it on the monitor, or as I said, on the big screen, with all the music in place, the slow motion, and the special effects, that's when it can look really nice. Sometimes you have a scene where you're talking to this guy and you might want to be really dramatic and use a lot of gestures. And they'll say "No, no, you don't have to use your hands", but you think that it's better, more dramatic. Now when you see it played back on the monitor, you understand why, because they might have had the camera aimed right at your face, so that's why they don't want the gestures. So now before I try something, I'll look through the camera lens to see what'll be in the shot and when I'll be out of shot. Sometimes when you're doing a scene, you have to keep that in mind, and that's hard. Acting's hard. One of the dutch stunt guys said that he'd rather jump off the top of a tall building than do an acting scene with dialogue. So you're trying to learn about moviemaking to improve your own acting. Mike: Yes. Two years ago, I just wanted to do action stuff, do stunt work. But now I've gotten more interested in acting. When I watch a movie, I try to see how other actors do things. And that might be something very simple, like a look. Sometimes you don't have to do the big movements. But in HK sometimes they go over the top. They really want you to do these exaggerated movements, almost like a cartoon. Brent: Is that just with western actors, or also HK actors? Because I feel the westerners are more stereotyped. The big movements are for the westerners. It's probably fittig their mold or their perception of a westerner. Mike: At the end of the day, most westerners in a HK movie, 99 percent of the time, they're going to be a bad guy. You know they're gonna fight the bad guy at the end of the movie, so you've got to be perceived to be this really bad character, the evil gangster boss or whatever. A really good friend of mine, Mark Houghton, he did this movie and he had a scene where he had to look into the camera and they threw a bag of flour in his face and it burst. The director said "when it bursts just be angry and then go forward". So he did it and the director said "no, more anger". And he did about twenty takes, acting more and more angry with each take and the director just kept saying "more angry". At the end the director got so mad, he said "okay, I'll show you how to do it", and they threw the flour in the director's face and the guy started to scream, and pull his hair, trampling his feet. Now, you know you're gonna look stupid if you do that on screen. Sometimes they want you to go even further than over the top. But exaggerated movements make a bad guy look more grotesque, thus more powerful. Mike: Yeah, but sometimes, it doesn't do that, it does the opposite. It makes the bad guy look stupid. You've worked with Gordon Chan a couple of times. The image I'm getting is that he's the new golden boy of HK action cinema. Mike: Well, I wouldn't say golden boy, because he's not really that young, but I have a feeling he'll probably be the next one to make the move to Hollywood. He speaks really good english, he studied in Canada and everything, he's a great director, he's very, very balanced, he's very relaxed. It's great working with him. You worked with him on Thunderbolt with Jackie and Armageddon, with Andy Lau and Anthony Wong. Mike: Anthony Wong is a student of mine now, in tae kwon do. He's only had one lesson so far, because I had to leave to come here. He's a really nice guy, and I like him because he's well respected in Hong Kong, he's famous, but he's very down to earth. He's like a no-bullshit guy and he's very controversial. In Hong Kong cinema we need that. Sometimes he'll go on radio shows or tv interviews and he'll swear, or... he's really at ease singing, playing rock songs, like hard core punk, and he's singing about the chinese government and what a bunch of wankers they are. And nobody else does that in Hong Kong. All the HK stars are squeaky clean. Anthony Wong is the only one who has the balls to get up and say "No, I don't like that guy, he's an idiot". That's his image on screen as well. Like in Armageddon, he's this scruffy guy who doesn't seem to care. Mike: Right, he's not one of these guys who tries to be a pretty boy and tries to look nice. Leather jacket, jeans, shirt, that's it, he's like that. Brent: And he's a good actor, which a lot of HK stars aren't. They're just faces. Mike: Yeah, in HK, if you're really good looking, you've got a great body, if you can't can't act, you can't sing, you can still become a big, big star in HK. It's ironic, it's crazy, but... Brent: That's how Mike got in. Mike: Actually, I did a few more, ahem, favours to get in, but we won't go into that. No, but in every country, in Australia, or England, or America, there's probably loads of martial arts guys who'd give their right arm and their right leg, well if they did that they wouldn't be able to do fight scenes anymore, but there's loads of people who'd love to get on a Jackie Chan movie or a Van Damme movie or any martial arts action movie. A lot of them don't know the ways and means to do that, or some of them do know but when they do it, they turn out to have the wrong attitude, like they're arrogant. A lot of martial arts guys go to HK, they get maybe one or two action roles, that's easy. Any westerner can go to HK and get a role in a movie. But whether or not you sustain it and keep getting more roles depends on your own attitude. Usually they're arrogant and people don't want to work with them anymore. I think your attitude should be that you're willing to do it for free, because you really like doing it. That's the attitude to have. Mike: Sometimes experience is more valuable than the money in the bank. Obviously the money helps to pay the bills, but sometimes, for a couple of movies, you can do it just for the experience. Brent: I worked on a movie called Iron Fist for six months for free, but if I hadn't done that, I never would have been be doing this. Mike: Sometimes you've got to take a gamble. You got to think "If I do this movie, I don't get paid as much as I normally get paid, but in the long run it might be much more valuable" Brent, how did you get into HK movies? Brent: I sort of always wanted to make martial arts films. I went to film school and got jobs on commercials and stuff after that, and then I did a... Mike: Hard core porn movie. Brent: Well, I might. No, I did Iron Fist, a really low-budget Australian martial arts movie with Richard Norton. Straight after that I worked on this really crappy kids show for about a month, and when that was finishing, First Strike was just starting and some of the crew were going on to it. I just called the right person at the right time and they were looking for someone. I got this props buyers job and sort of got on really well with the propsmaster. So when they came back to Australia for the next film they called me again. Then when I did the Jet Li film in Texas, they couldn't find a local crew who would work hard enough, fast enough and who would just do what they asked, when they asked it, rather than stand around and question everything. So they asked me to come over there, which was good. So I've been pretty lucky. I've learned a lot in terms of for instance stunt rigging, how they make stuff safe for stunts. I had no idea how much padding they put into it. They have padded floors, they might have tables and put padding all the way around and spray it the same color. On screen you see these really hard falls, and you think "wow, didn't that hurt?" But they pad it more than you think. None of the HK films I've worked on were really low-budget, but when I go back to making low-budget films I'll really know some great tricks to use. You made this movie The Huntsman. How did that come about? Brent: I went to film school for three years. The first years I experimented with ways to make a film. And the kind of person that I am, I really didn't like to play the part of the director. My second year of film school was hell. I had really good actors, but I just wanted to say to them "you're the bad guy, be badder, be more evil", and actors don't like that. A martial arts film hadn't been done in film school and hadn't been done in Australia since Man From Hong Kong with Jimmy Wang Yu. So I decided to do that with The Huntsman, and it was the best fun I ever had making a film, just making an action movie. It turned out well. Some of the fight stuff turned out better than I had expected. I've tried sending it to Jackie and I got like a letter back from his fan club, saying "Thank you for your interest..." etcetera. Some of the places I sent it to, would send my tape back like three months later, or a year later. I got one back two years later, the one I sent to Tsui Hark. But I got one to John Woo in America, which was really cool. John sent me a letter back and his assistant called me and all sorts of stuff. So that was really cool. And then I just got really lucky working on Jackie's films. Also Iron Fist with Richard Norton was very good to work for, but then working with Jackie and working with Sammo Hung, with Stanley Tong. The films that I've done have been a good series of films with the right people. There are still a few other people I'd like to work with, but I'm seeing what I want to see before going back to do my own thing. So this like an education to really become a feature director. Brent: Yeah, it's kind of like going back to film school again for action films. Any plans for starting your first feature? Brent: I haven't got a script. That's my main problem. Mike: But I'll probably be in it, won't I? Brent: Oh yeah, probably. Mike: Probably definitely. Brent: Probably definitely maybe. De volgende dag kwam ik Mike weer tegen op de set en, zo bleek, hij had nog tijd voor een paar extra vragen, waaronder de vaste Project A vragenlijst (die van Brent houd je nog tegoed). You're next appearing in the new Tsui Hark movie. Mike: Yes. It's called Knock-Off. It's with Jean-Claude van Damme, and the guy from Judge Dredd, Rob Schneider, Paul Sorvino and Peter Nelson. I'm stunt doubling for Peter. It's set in Hong Kong. Van Damme plays some kind of business man and they're doing knock-off products, you know, fake products. He stumbles into the russian mafia, who are smuggling some kind of explosives and weapons in his cargo. Tsui Hark directed it, and Sammo Hung was the action director. I wasn't an actor on this one, just a stunt double. I couldn't do more, because I had to come over here for Who Am I. What other projects are you working on? Mike: I'm going to Canada next to do stunt work for Kirk Wong's new movie. He's doing a big Hollywood movie now. I don't know what it's called, but I'm going to do some stunt doubling. I'll also have a meeting with Keith Stramberg in the near future. He's a producer in the States, his company's called Seasonal Films and he's one of the kings of DTV movies. He said he really wanted to meet me, and maybe do a movie with me. How did you get into Hong Kong movies? Mike: Initially, Bey Logan suggested the idea to me about eight years ago; why don't I make the break into action films. I met Bey because I was on the England Tae Kwon Do team. I was already well known in the martial arts magazines in England. That's how I got to meet Bey and he said "if you want to go, go". He gets letters and tapes from people all time who want to go to Hong Kong and be an action star, but I was the only one to do it. I sold a piece of jewellery, a ring, and left for Hong Kong. When I arrived there I didn't know many people. Bey told me to contact Mark Houghton. Liu Chia Liang is his instructor and he's done about sixty movies. He introduced me to Ip Choi Lam, who's best known in the West for playing one of the Ninja Turtles. He in turn introduced to more stuntpeople and I started going to castings. My first movie was The Quest with Jean Claude van Damme, I played the Scottish fighter. I worked on it for three months and I only got a couple minutes of screen time, but that's how it is. A lot of stuff came after that one. How many films have you done so far? Mike: I've done thirteen productions, not all Hong Kong. I've done some western, british, japanese and then some Hong Kong. Are there any people in the Hong Kong movie industry you really admire, or people you take as an example? Mike: Obviously Jackie Chan, because he's one of the best action stars in the world. He's been at the top for 25 years, especially in Asia, and now he's trying to break into the western market. So I admire him very much for that. Two actors I really admire are Lau Ching Wan and Anthony Wong, because they're great character actors, but also they're very famous and still very down to earth. I've worked with Andy Lau twice. He's been singing for years, and he's been in over one hundred movies, but he's still very friendly and always remembers my name. He's like "hey Mike, how are you doing". Then there's Donnie Yen, because he's been around for years, but still maintains the sense of the old kung fu-style in his movies. And finally Hwang Jang Lee. He used to be in a lot of seventies kung fu-movies, always as the bad guy. He inspired me because he's a great kicker. After watching his movies it really made me train harder. He was the first to do the triple side kick without wires. What are your thoughts on wire work? Mike: If done correctly, it can be very, very good. Some Hong Kong movies go over the top, but the way Jackie Chan uses it, that's the right way to do it. If a guy jumps from a three storey-building, does some kicks in the air and then lands on his feet, that's taking it too far. I think you have to use it and still keep it believable. People should think "you know, that might be possible to do". Like Ken Lo in Drunken Master II, when he lifts his leg straight up into the air. He can do that, but in that scene they used a wire to give him a little extra lift. Brent: Before he was on camera, Ken Lo was just one of Jackie's bodyguards. And Jackie said to him if he could do full splits and hold his leg straight up into the air for a kick he would give him the role. He was saying he worked on that for months, like everyday really, really hurting himself until he could do it. And that's how he got the role. Jackie said if he could do it, he'd give him a chance. And he really pushed himself and did it and Jackie give him the job. He did really well too, I thought. Mike: Drunken Master II was great. Brent: It's one of Jackie's really great films. Now, Mike, yesterday you told me you were trying to learn more about filmmaking, mainly to become a better actor. But are you doing this to maybe become a director as well? Mike: I'd definitely like to become an action director and do fight choreography, but directing... As of now, no, because I don't know about the technical stuff. But in the future, yes, I would. Name: Mike Lambert Age: 26 Occupation: Stuntman/actor and part time private eye Favorite food: Chinese, italian, and english (joke) Favorite pet: A small bird-eating spider called Cecil Favorite film: Anything with me in it (ha, ha) Goal in life: To keep on being happy and healthy, and then get wealthy! Message to the world: What goes around comes around, so treat everyone with respect, no matter what creed, race or religion. We all bleed the same colour. Tom Mes